Here I want to concentrate on another source of error, namely, processes that take place within magma chambers. To me it has been a real eye opener to see all the processes that are taking place and their potential influence on radiometric dating. Radiometric dating is largely done on rock that has formed from solidified lava. Lava properly called magma before it erupts fills large underground chambers called magma chambers. Most people are not aware of the many processes that take place in lava before it erupts and as it solidifies, processes that can have a tremendous influence on daughter to parent ratios. Such processes can cause the daughter product to be enriched relative to the parent, which would make the rock look older, or cause the parent to be enriched relative to the daughter, which would make the rock look younger. This calls the whole radiometric dating scheme into serious question.
Although this satisfies the scientist, who for all sorts of other reasons quite reasonably assumes that these samples are truly old, it leaves enormous scope for the creationists to reinforce their followers' faith that the earth is young. I still feel that some definitive experiments in this area would be useful to test the various rational explanations for the c14 anomaly.
I can see though that science has problems taking on creationists because of the perceived risk of lending credibility to their ideas. Bit of a dilemma there. Also as soon as one creationist idea is exploded, they just move on to another area where uncertainty in the science offers them the opportunity to mislead.
That begs the question that an anomaly even exists. What does exist are limits to the applicability of 14 C dating techniques. Several of the test results touted by creationists were definitive experiments to assess those limitations. There is no arguing with young earth creationists. They are immune to logic and evidence.
Apr 03, Yes, there are other issues at play (as is the case with any over-arching scientific idea), but to her, radiometric dating is the most important reason she believes in an old earth. I have no idea whether she is the norm or the exception, but she does exist. Jake says: April 7, at am. Radiometric dating is largely done on rock that has formed from solidified lava. Lava (properly called magma before it erupts) fills large underground chambers called magma chambers. Most people are not aware of the many processes that take place in lava before it erupts and as it solidifies, processes that can have a tremendous influence on.
Broadly speaking I agree with you. But, reading the experts' explanations of the "anomaly" read to me, as a non-expert in this field, like perfectly reasonable explanations as long as you accept the "old earth" explanation. If you don't, such dismissive arguments as 'the extra C14 could be due to uranium decay' leave enough wriggle room uncertainty for the creationist to thrive in.
You're right though, I'm probably being naive in thnking they will be convinced. Even so, it is always good when creationists have been casting doubt in some area to be able to completely explode their reasoning. I'm still looking for a reference, in a refereed scientific journal, confirming the finding of carbon14, in any amount, in diamonds or coal.
I suspect, but haven't been able to confirm, that the reports of carbon 14 in these substances have been made up out of whole cloth by Young Earth Creationists, but I am loath to make this claim, absent evidence that reports of these findings haven't been published in any journals that aren't connected with such organizations as the Institute for Creation Science.
I further think that it is the fact that the claims are conscpicuously bogus that has accounted for their not having been responded to. After all, to my limited understanding, carbon 14 is associated with organic processes, and, right off the bat, I find myself wondering why it would be found in any allotrope of carbon, which is an inorganic element. Can anyone out there either confirm or disconfirm my suspicions?
You need to know that I will not be much impressed by anything coming from the ICR or any similar group. Well one of two things could be happening, the carbon 14 signature is reset every time the rock melts because the carbon 14 disperses among the liquid rock, Also neutron bombardment from uranium decay could possibly have an impact, but you'd also have other trace elements that tell the tale of this neutron contamination.
Since the discussion is specifically about Carbon14 in coal I am unclear as to why you would be talking about molten rock. Coal is not known for its inclination to melt.
Since Carbon14 dating is only relevant to dating organic matter I am unclear as to why you would be talking about resetting the Carbon14 clock in molten rock. Molten rock is not organic material friendly.
We all make mistakes. I made one in You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Sign up for a new account in our community.
It's easy! Already have an account? Sign in here. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better.
You can adjust your cookie settingsotherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Physics Search In. Recommended Posts. Posted December 29, edited. Anyone have any ideas about this apparent anomaly with C14 in coal?
Edited December 29, by Griffon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites. Posted December 30, Posted December 30, edited. In order to take back our site, we have taken the step of removing all the scripts on our site. We will restore static content as quickly as possible. Thanks for your responses and the links to various sources. Much appreciated. Posted January 3, Posted January 4, Posted January 15, edited.
Posted December 3, Posted February 11, edited. Posted February 17, Create an account or sign in to comment You need to be a member in order to leave a comment Create an account Sign up for a new account in our community.
Register a new account.
How radiometric dating works in general: So we have a number of mechanisms that can introduce errors in radiometric dates. Heating can cause argon to leave a rock and make it look younger. In general, if lava was heated after the initial flow, it can yield an age that is too young. If the minerals in the lava did not melt with the lava. Oct 01, Radiometric dating is often used to "prove" rocks are millions of years old. Once you understand the basic science, however, you can see how wrong assumptions lead to incorrect dates. This three-part series will help you properly understand radiometric dating, the assumptions that lead to inaccurate dates, and the clues about what really Author: Dr. Andrew A. Snelling. The guide describes a number of radiometric methods and states that for 'suitable specimens the errors involved in radiometric dating usually amount to several percent of the age result. Thus a result of two hundred million years is expected to be quite close (within, say, 4 million) to the true age.'.
Sign in Already have an account? Sign In Now. Carbon, though, is continuously created through collisions of neutrons generated by cosmic rays with nitrogen in the upper atmosphere and thus remains at a near-constant level on Earth. The carbon ends up as a trace component in atmospheric carbon dioxide CO 2. A carbon-based life form acquires carbon during its lifetime. Plants acquire it through photosynthesisand animals acquire it from consumption of plants and other animals.
When an organism dies, it ceases to take in new carbon, and the existing isotope decays with a characteristic half-life years. The proportion of carbon left when the remains of the organism are examined provides an indication of the time elapsed since its death. This makes carbon an ideal dating method to date the age of bones or the remains of an organism.
The carbon dating limit lies around 58, to 62, years. The rate of creation of carbon appears to be roughly constant, as cross-checks of carbon dating with other dating methods show it gives consistent results.
However, local eruptions of volcanoes or other events that give off large amounts of carbon dioxide can reduce local concentrations of carbon and give inaccurate dates.
The releases of carbon dioxide into the biosphere as a consequence of industrialization have also depressed the proportion of carbon by a few percent; conversely, the amount of carbon was increased by above-ground nuclear bomb tests that were conducted into the early s.
Also, an increase in the solar wind or the Earth's magnetic field above the current value would depress the amount of carbon created in the atmosphere.
This involves inspection of a polished slice of a material to determine the density of "track" markings left in it by the spontaneous fission of uranium impurities.
The uranium content of the sample has to be known, but that can be determined by placing a plastic film over the polished slice of the material, and bombarding it with slow neutrons. This causes induced fission of U, as opposed to the spontaneous fission of U. The fission tracks produced by this process are recorded in the plastic film. The uranium content of the material can then be calculated from the number of tracks and the neutron flux.
This scheme has application over a wide range of geologic dates. For dates up to a few million years micastektites glass fragments from volcanic eruptionsand meteorites are best used.
How Does Radiometric Dating Work? - Ars Technica
Older materials can be dated using zirconapatitetitaniteepidote and garnet which have a variable amount of uranium content. The technique has potential applications for detailing the thermal history of a deposit. The residence time of 36 Cl in the atmosphere is about 1 week. Thus, as an event marker of s water in soil and ground water, 36 Cl is also useful for dating waters less than 50 years before the present.
Luminescence dating methods are not radiometric dating methods in that they do not rely on abundances of isotopes to calculate age. Instead, they are a consequence of background radiation on certain minerals. Over time, ionizing radiation is absorbed by mineral grains in sediments and archaeological materials such as quartz and potassium feldspar. The radiation causes charge to remain within the grains in structurally unstable "electron traps".
Exposure to sunlight or heat releases these charges, effectively "bleaching" the sample and resetting the clock to zero.
The trapped charge accumulates over time at a rate determined by the amount of background radiation at the location where the sample was buried. Stimulating these mineral grains using either light optically stimulated luminescence or infrared stimulated luminescence dating or heat thermoluminescence dating causes a luminescence signal to be emitted as the stored unstable electron energy is released, the intensity of which varies depending on the amount of radiation absorbed during burial and specific properties of the mineral.
Radiometric dating errors - Find single man in the US with rapport. Looking for sympathy in all the wrong places? Now, try the right place. How to get a good woman. It is not easy for women to find a good man, and to be honest it is not easy for a man to find a good woman. Rich woman looking for older woman & younger man. I'm laid back and get along with everyone. Feb 17, Ive been poking about on the internet again (as you do) and found a whole load of stuff by creationists about the problems with carbon 14 radiometric dating. Specifically they report (with some glee) that coal has been found to contain measurable amounts of carbon14 which it . Radiometric dating methods are very accurate and very trustworthy. Creationist arguments to the contrary are riddled with flaws, as is the scientific research used by them to support their position. and correcting 'typographical errors' in other researchers' data without providing any evidence that such corrections were warranted.".
These methods can be used to date the age of a sediment layer, as layers deposited on top would prevent the grains from being "bleached" and reset by sunlight.
Pottery shards can be dated to the last time they experienced significant heat, generally when they were fired in a kiln. Absolute radiometric dating requires a measurable fraction of parent nucleus to remain in the sample rock. For rocks dating back to the beginning of the solar system, this requires extremely long-lived parent isotopes, making measurement of such rocks' exact ages imprecise. To be able to distinguish the relative ages of rocks from such old material, and to get a better time resolution than that available from long-lived isotopes, short-lived isotopes that are no longer present in the rock can be used.
At the beginning of the solar system, there were several relatively short-lived radionuclides like 26 Al, 60 Fe, 53 Mn, and I present within the solar nebula. These radionuclides-possibly produced by the explosion of a supernova-are extinct today, but their decay products can be detected in very old material, such as that which constitutes meteorites. By measuring the decay products of extinct radionuclides with a mass spectrometer and using isochronplots, it is possible to determine relative ages of different events in the early history of the solar system.
Dating methods based on extinct radionuclides can also be calibrated with the U-Pb method to give absolute ages. Thus both the approximate age and a high time resolution can be obtained.
Generally a shorter half-life leads to a higher time resolution at the expense of timescale. The iodine-xenon chronometer  is an isochron technique. Samples are exposed to neutrons in a nuclear reactor. This converts the only stable isotope of iodine I into Xe via neutron capture followed by beta decay of I.
After irradiation, samples are heated in a series of steps and the xenon isotopic signature of the gas evolved in each step is analysed. Samples of a meteorite called Shallowater are usually included in the irradiation to monitor the conversion efficiency from I to Xe.
This in turn corresponds to a difference in age of closure in the early solar system. Another example of short-lived extinct radionuclide dating is the 26 Al - 26 Mg chronometer, which can be used to estimate the relative ages of chondrules. The 26 Al - 26 Mg chronometer gives an estimate of the time period for formation of primitive meteorites of only a few million years 1.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. A technique used to date materials such as rocks or carbon. See also: Radioactive decay law.
Main article: Closure temperature. Main article: Uranium-lead dating. Main article: Samarium-neodymium dating. Main article: Potassium-argon dating. Main article: Rubidium-strontium dating. Main article: Uranium-thorium dating. Main article: Radiocarbon dating. Main article: fission track dating. Main article: Luminescence dating. Earth sciences portal Geophysics portal Physics portal.
The disintegration products of uranium". American Journal of Science. In Roth, Etienne; Poty, Bernard eds. Nuclear Methods of Dating. Springer Netherlands. Applied Radiation and Isotopes.
Annual Review of Nuclear Science. Bibcode : Natur. January Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. Earth and Planetary Science Letters. Brent The age of the earth. Stanford, Calif. Radiogenic isotope geology 2nd ed. Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Principles and applications of geochemistry: a comprehensive textbook for geology students 2nd ed. Using geochemical data: evaluation, presentation, interpretation. Harlow : Longman.
Cornell University. United States Geological Survey.
Radiometric dating errors
Kramers June Hanson; M. Martin; S. Bowring; H. Jelsma; P. Dirks Journal of African Earth Sciences. Bibcode : JAfES. Precambrian Research.
Bibcode : PreR. Vetter; Donald W. Davis Chemical Geology. Bibcode : ChGeo. South African Journal of Geology. Wilson; R. Carlson December In situ Rb-Sr dating of slickenfibres in deep crystalline basement faults. Sci Rep 10, The Swedish National Heritage Board. Archived from the original on 31 March Retrieved 9 March Dergachev Annales Geophysicae. Bibcode : AnGeo. Retrieved 6 April Thomas August